Jenna's Ep - "Low Maintenance" Ss14 Ep13

When 20-year-old college student Jenna Verhaalen is found dead in her Texas apartment, investigators are faced with a puzzling case. With no obvious signs of forced entry and several potential suspects in the spotlight—including her boyfriend, a neighbor, and an apartment maintenance worker—the search for the truth becomes a forensic nightmare.

In this episode, Danielle and Drew break down the forensic evidence that ultimately exposed the killer, including DNA recovered from beneath Jenna's fingernails and a trail of clues hidden in plain sight. We discuss the investigation's twists and turns, the suspects who nearly took the fall, and how modern forensic science helped deliver justice for Jenna and her family.

Join us as we unpack Forensic Files Season 14, Episode 13, "Low Maintenance"—a case that proves even the smallest piece of evidence can speak volumes.

Sources: Forensic Files | YouTube | Wikipedia | Investigation Discovery’s ‘A Time to Kill: To Stalk a Co-Ed | The Cinemaholic 

Transcript

SPEAKER_07 0:00

Are we ready?

SPEAKER_06 0:00

Yeah, well, guess we're ready.

SPEAKER_07 0:02

Okay, to kick off our first recording session of twenty twenty six, I want to shout out to everyone out there making their dreams a reality. I finally got all caught up with Stranger Things, and there were so many actors that I had represented during that like little blip in time that I was an agent in Atlanta, and that show changed so many lives for the better. And it's so cool to have witnessed like all these actors go from being a an actor, like almost like a hobby actor, to like this is you have this huge platform now, and it just changed.

SPEAKER_05 0:34

One of the biggest shows on the world.

SPEAKER_07 0:36

Yeah, it changed their lives. It's so cool. And just to be able to witness that from the sidelines, and it just lately, I feel like I haven't been able to watch anything without knowing someone who's acting in it or working on it. So even though I stepped away from auditioning and all that craziness, I just think it's so like amazing to see other artists making like real progress with their dreams.

SPEAKER_06 0:58

Period.

SPEAKER_07 0:59

That includes you too, Drew. Like truly, it does. And I just think it's so cool. I just keep seeing all my friends thriving in their dreams.

SPEAKER_05 1:07

So see, that's what makes a good person. You being excited and like happy for your like closest friends, not like secretly jealous. No, you know what I mean? Not that you would.

SPEAKER_07 1:17

They're not even my close friends.

SPEAKER_05 1:18

Not that you would, just like you like some people look at people's success and be like, I've seen that. I'm so jealous of their I know.

SPEAKER_07 1:25

And there's been times, I'm not saying I'm perfect, like there's been times that I've seen someone surpass me or even book a role that we both went out for. And I still have a hard time.

SPEAKER_05 1:35

Like a hard pillow to swell.

SPEAKER_07 1:36

Everyone has their own journeys. I was able to kind of find our little our little piece of heaven, you know, where we live now. And so it does allow me to be happy for others when I see them like finding that for themselves.

SPEAKER_05 1:49

I love that. Hi D.

SPEAKER_07 1:51

Hi D. So not sure when this will go out, but it is our first recording session of the new year. And we're doing it together. And we're doing it in person. This is the second time I've seen you.

SPEAKER_05 2:01

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_07 2:02

Well, you've been here and like we're good.

SPEAKER_05 2:04

It's really good for us. It's pretty good, I must say. For me, that is pretty good. Oh my gosh. Well, what's a little update for me? I mean, I I am going back to London. I'm feeling strong about our podcast. I'm feeling strong about being motivated to go back. I'm so excited to go back. Although this has been, I feel like, the longest time I've been home. Like in like a sit-down period.

SPEAKER_07 2:28

Yeah, I would say so.

SPEAKER_05 2:30

I feel like I've loved it. I've loved being home with my family. I it's been nice, but I am so excited to go back to London.

SPEAKER_07 2:37

I imagine so. I imagine so.

SPEAKER_05 2:40

Very excited. Yeah. But what about you? Any updates? Nope. Yes, there are. I mean, this like your house, I feel like continuously gets uh keeps getting updated. Like every time I come back, you're like, oh yeah, nothing's been done when you just created a whole new cubby corner.

SPEAKER_07 2:57

That's like Yeah, that's all fine.

SPEAKER_05 2:59

I wouldn't leave here.

SPEAKER_07 3:00

No, I do like this little corner that I created. Um, that that part is true. I'm constantly updating the house. It drives Blake nuts. He said to me the other day, what's it like being married to Danielle? Every week she wants to move furniture somewhere else.

SPEAKER_05 3:14

Yeah, and you should just like say, like, yeah, because guess what? Everything's evolving, change is always happening.

SPEAKER_07 3:21

Well, I just tell him at least it's not another house.

SPEAKER_05 3:23

Yeah, I mean that that's true. That is true.

SPEAKER_07 3:26

I'm just trying to make this house work.

SPEAKER_05 3:28

Exactly.

SPEAKER_07 3:29

Yeah. And told him it was gonna be a challenge from the get, you know. I wanted an old ass house. So I have a long road ahead of me. Um, but yeah, no, it's good luck, Blake. Yeah, good luck.

SPEAKER_05 3:42

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_07 3:43

Seriously, everyone say a prayer for him. He's a great husband.

SPEAKER_05 3:46

I'm sorry. Wait, I want to do a little shout out.

SPEAKER_07 3:49

Oh, yeah, we have shout-outs.

SPEAKER_05 3:50

Yeah, I want to shout out my friend Layla Knight. Um, and she's my London friend. I love it. I met working at Scotch and Soda. If you give if you get a look a little chance to go follow, and you like up-and-coming artists, um, and Stevie Nicks is your jam, she is going to definitely please your ears when you're listening to all of her new music, and she's coming out with new music. Um, her handle, she wants me to say, uh, is at Layla M-A-I, K-N-I-G-H-T, at Layla May night. And she's gonna have a lot of if you're in London, she's gonna have a lot of new um dates coming up for her performances.

SPEAKER_07 4:32

And yeah. Well, that goes along with everything I said about like people following their dreams. So yeah, I'm here for it. I'm here to lift anyone up and help anyone I can.

SPEAKER_05 4:42

Why not? We have a platform, so let's just do it.

SPEAKER_07 4:44

Yeah, that big platform of ours.

SPEAKER_05 4:46

Hey, you gotta speak it into existence, people.

SPEAKER_07 4:49

Yeah. Drew's committed in 2026 to be completely delusional about the status of our podcast.

SPEAKER_05 4:55

No, it's not delusion.

SPEAKER_07 4:56

It's well, until it's real.

SPEAKER_05 4:58

It's gonna happen, you guys. I'm not gonna say what it is because I don't want to jinx it, but there's three things that I want for this podcast, and we are going to at least achieve one and a half of them.

SPEAKER_07 5:07

One and a half?

unknown 5:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 5:11

One and a half. Okay.

SPEAKER_07 5:13

I I think that's reasonable.

SPEAKER_05 5:14

Yeah, I think so.

SPEAKER_07 5:15

Setting your expectations to be realistic.

SPEAKER_05 5:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 5:19

I love it. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 5:20

I just need an I need an optimistic partner.

SPEAKER_07 5:22

I am so optimistic. Okay, okay. Let's remember how I started this podcast today. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Okay, so Drew, what is our drink from your grandfather's little black book? Because we've kind of missed it the past couple episodes.

SPEAKER_05 5:34

Yeah, I'm so sorry. I'm sorry, everyone who actually is following the drinks, but we are going back to it. This drink is called the Mamie Taylor. M-A-M-I-E. I'm sp saying that right, right? Mamie Taylor.

SPEAKER_07 5:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 5:49

Sure. Mammy Taylor. No, no, no, that sounds terrible. Mamie Taylor. It's really simple. It's probably the simplest drink we've done on the show.

SPEAKER_06 5:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 5:57

And all it is is one and a half ounces of scotch and then a half ounce of lime juice. You put it into a shaker and then shake it up and pour it out. What do you think?

SPEAKER_07 6:07

Not my favorite.

SPEAKER_05 6:08

I don't like scotch. I don't like scotch. I'm not a scotch girly.

SPEAKER_07 6:10

No, we're uh tequila ginger girlies. So cheers.

SPEAKER_05 6:14

Okay, cheers to having tequila ginger because Well, we tried it.

SPEAKER_07 6:17

We didn't like it.

SPEAKER_05 6:18

We tried it, we didn't like it, so we moved on to our go-to, which is tequila ginger. All right. Alrighty.

SPEAKER_07 6:26

Ready to get into it?

SPEAKER_05 6:27

Let's do it. Hi everyone! Welcome to the Forensic Files Duo podcast, where we recap, review, and provide updates on the cases featured on the true crime TV show Forensic Files. I'm Drew, and I knew nothing about True Crime until we started this podcast.

SPEAKER_07 6:58

And I'm Danielle, and True Crime raised me.

SPEAKER_05 7:01

If you're listening to us for the very first time and want to hear more about our friendship and how we became the forensics duo many moons ago, head over to episode one for the whole backstory. But real quick, we have been best friends since high school.

SPEAKER_07 7:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 7:16

So long ago.

SPEAKER_07 7:16

So long ago. And in high school, we competed in an acting club called Forensics in the duo category where we acted out scenes from a play. It had nothing to do with forensics.

SPEAKER_05 7:28

Zero.

SPEAKER_07 7:28

Science. Forensic science. It had nothing to do with forensic science. Nada.

SPEAKER_05 7:34

Now, time for our regular disclaimer.

SPEAKER_07 7:37

Yes. So we understand that we will be discussing a lot of sensitive topics. So although we may laugh at times, please remember that we are laughing at ourselves, and ourselves always. Our always. We are not making light of what the victims and their families have gone through and may even be continuing to go through.

SPEAKER_05 7:55

And in an effort to use the public's overall interest in the show Forensic Files and leverage the power of digital media, once the episode coverage is over, we will highlight a missing person's case.

SPEAKER_07 8:05

Today's episode is listed on Wikipedia as season 14, episode 13, called Low Maintenance. Two words neither one of us know anything about.

SPEAKER_05 8:13

No, no, no. I'm the most high maintenance person ever. That's why we probably are best friends. Yes. Wikipedia says this episode aired February 25th, 2011. But the case in this show takes us to April 9th, 2008. And it takes place in Bryan, Texas. Do we have any info about Brian, Texas at this time?

SPEAKER_07 8:35

Yes, we do. And while doing my research, I learned it's really close to Texas AM, the college. And the only thing I've ever known about that college is that they call themselves the Aggies.

SPEAKER_05 8:46

No way. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 8:47

It's because it's supposed to be an agricultural school.

SPEAKER_05 8:50

Oh.

SPEAKER_07 8:50

Yeah. I don't know if it still is, but anyways, um, one of my best friends is named Aggies, so it brought my attention and brought me a lot of joy while I was researching because I saw a subreddit and I was like, I need to find suggestions for the best drink in Aggieland.

SPEAKER_05 9:05

Oh my god, that's hilarious.

SPEAKER_07 9:06

Um so don't worry, I linked it in the show notes for anyone wondering what the Aggies had to say about that.

SPEAKER_05 9:12

Um my gosh, the Aggies. The Aggies. If she was ever famous, those would be her fan names.

SPEAKER_07 9:16

Oh my god, the Aggies in Aggieland.

SPEAKER_05 9:18

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_07 9:19

Now ChatGPT's description of Brian, Texas, it feels like a line straight out of the show, The Office. Brian, Texas, in 2008 felt like a quiet, blue-collar college town neighbor. Much slower and rougher on the edges, and very different from nearby college station.

SPEAKER_05 9:35

What's college station?

SPEAKER_07 9:36

It's a location. I guess it's just like college like central. Oh. Or the college.

SPEAKER_05 9:42

Like where like East East Lansing. Yeah. For like machine.

SPEAKER_07 9:46

Yes. The overall vibe, I was told, is small town, no frills energy. Strong working class, deep Texas roots, not trendy, not polished, more practical than aspirational. Then again, with the analogy as if Brian, Texas, is a human, it was described as the older, grittier sibling to college station. I don't know. I don't know if this is accurate. I mean, it's not a good idea.

SPEAKER_05 10:08

It's really not making my appeal for this city. It's not.

SPEAKER_07 10:11

It's work at all. It's not working for Brian, Texas at all. So that sibling would definitely be the sibling that made fun of you for like moving to LA to follow every impractical dream.

SPEAKER_05 10:22

That sounds familiar, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_07 10:23

Yeah, it does. So slightly triggered by Brian Texas now, if I'm being honest.

SPEAKER_05 10:27

Shall we never trust a city with a name that has a first name that's a person?

SPEAKER_07 10:32

Especially a Brian.

SPEAKER_05 10:34

Brian.

SPEAKER_07 10:34

Brian.

SPEAKER_05 10:35

Never trust a Brian.

SPEAKER_07 10:37

Now, all joking aside, it's important to know that in 2008, the recession hit Brian, Texas hard. Foreclosures, they just spiked, spending slowed, growth paused. And so we know through talking about different towns and areas that with the economy, when it gets bad, livelihoods fundamentally change, and that can fundamentally change a person too. So alongside everyday life, there is some local folklore quietly lingering. So the stories of abandoned Allen Academy campus. Another first name. Oh my gosh. Whispers of unexplained figures near the old rail lines downtown. Ooh. And late night talks about strange encounters along the Brazos River.

SPEAKER_05 11:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_07 11:23

So today, Brian has reshaped its image. Brian had a makeover.

SPEAKER_05 11:28

A glow up.

SPEAKER_07 11:29

He had a glow-up with a revived downtown and growing cultural scene. But in 2008, it was a place defined by grit. There's that word again. Grit, affordability, and the kind of stories that only seem to surface after dark.

SPEAKER_05 11:45

Scary. But I feel like every city has the railroad tracks and the river. You know what I mean? Like the scary ghost stories.

SPEAKER_07 11:53

I feel like the railroad thing is very much a south thing.

SPEAKER_05 11:56

Oh, is it?

SPEAKER_07 11:57

I mean, we have obviously we have trains here, but like every small town that I've ever seen in the South, they like always have a train track.

SPEAKER_05 12:04

Because they always like hang out above the bridge above the train track. Yes, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep. Okay, let's get into the episode.

SPEAKER_03 12:12

Up next, tragedy at a Texas college.

SPEAKER_02 12:15

She's cold. She's cold to the touch? Yes, ma'am. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_08 12:21

It's very unusual for a 20-year-old girl to die suddenly of natural causes.

SPEAKER_03 12:25

Tiny drops of blood could mean an accident or a murder.

SPEAKER_05 12:30

After the up next, a 911 call and some gross dudes without shirts on. We open the episode with music that almost sounds like an Usher or little John song that would have played at a high school prom, but like a royalty-free version of it.

SPEAKER_07 12:44

Yeah, I got that. Agreed. But I also caught an editing error here. Um yeah, so they show B-roll of what's supposed to be what we assume is like the 911 operator, but they sped it up so fast. And so I thought she was like playing with a slinky or shuffling cards because it that's what caught my eye was her fingers. Um, so if anyone watches this episode and goes back, see if you catch it as well. What is it? She's just typing so fast, and the movement with her hands kept catching my attention.

SPEAKER_05 13:14

Look at you looking looking at those little details. That's normally me. No, it's normally me.

SPEAKER_07 13:19

It caught my eye. I had to re-watch. Like, I'm like, what is it? What's happening here? And they just like sped up the time the time of the episode.

SPEAKER_05 13:27

They were like, we gotta speed this up. Yeah. Put it times 40.

SPEAKER_07 13:31

It's not important to anything else but the case. I just like finding little like mistakes like that. It's like finding like an editing mistake in a book.

SPEAKER_05 13:40

Or like seeing the boom mic come into like frame. Oh, yeah. I love that.

SPEAKER_07 13:43

Me too.

SPEAKER_05 13:44

Anyways, Peter then gives us his thoughts on Brian, Texas. He says it's a college town that lies in the shadow of Texas AM because it's home to Blynn College. Never heard of her. But this is where Jenna Verhalen and Spencer Hood were quote inseparable. We meet my favorite person in this episode, Ashley Sigmund, who has the most 2008 layered bob cut with a Bobby Pin side part bang with a lower third saying, television reporter. I mean, I didn't like see any bangs. No, they were so like glued to like the left side. I mean, no, props to you, Ashley. She tells us that Jenna's parents told her that Spencer was the love of her life, and we see photos of them from high school prom. I mean, it definitely looks like a better prom date than what Danielle and I both had. But we love that for Jenna, don't we?

SPEAKER_07 14:37

We too.

SPEAKER_05 14:38

These two were high school sweethearts who had dated for several years, went to prom together, and are now in separal inseparable in college together. It sounds like a true all-American love story.

SPEAKER_07 14:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 14:47

We're told Jenna just absolutely adored Spencer. Then we hear that Jenna and Spencer plan to pursue careers in either law or government. They lived in separate apartments at the same complex, though. They both lived at the Autumn Woods apartment complex, and it looks honestly like it looks pretty pretty generic. Yeah. And like they even have those, like I could I could like literally feel the shower door when they were doing the reenactment. You know, like the like gritty one, plastic.

SPEAKER_07 15:14

And it's got like the waves and the glass. So it just gets a little bit more. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You could just feel the person in there. Yes, yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 15:20

So they both lived at the Autumn Woods. And although it was generic, it was like it was like a typical apartment complex that was kind of like a dorm. Yeah. It's like where all the college students, if you were like not wanting to live in the dorms, you would go to this apartment complex.

SPEAKER_07 15:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 15:35

It's also exactly right next to Glenn College.

SPEAKER_07 15:38

Right. So we meet detective Stephen Frye, and he has zero emotions the entire time.

SPEAKER_05 15:45

Most basic haircut, but I feel like that's like a Texas Southern haircut of the city. It totally is.

SPEAKER_07 15:50

Totally is. So uh Stephen Fry joins the episode to break down the events that happened on April 9th, 2008. So apparently, after attending his morning classes, Spencer stopped by Jenna's apartment to pick up a book he'd left there. When Spencer arrived at the apartment, he found the door unlocked, he went inside, and that's when the crime scene photos start just filling the entire screen, and they don't stop.

SPEAKER_05 16:13

Spencer Files loves to do this.

SPEAKER_07 16:15

They love that. Um so you can even see rigor mortis has set in. What's rigor mortis? You don't know. You don't know what that is.

SPEAKER_05 16:23

No, it sounds like it sounds like a character. Like you can see rigor mortis.

SPEAKER_07 16:28

Yeah, I I could see that. But I it's way too much associated with crime and what's rigor mortis. It's like when it sets in.

SPEAKER_05 16:36

Um Who says rigor mortis?

SPEAKER_07 16:38

Every true crime show, anyone who works in this industry, rigor mortis is something that happens to your body after you die. It like stiffens.

SPEAKER_05 16:46

I'm gonna start using it, but in like the completely wrong context just to act smart and like conversation Yeah. Can you believe the rigor mortis in this in this in this day is crazy? You know what I mean? Like just like I woke up with some serious rigor mortis this morning. Rigor mortise, it'll get ya.

SPEAKER_07 17:03

You're kind of giving like rigor mortis.

SPEAKER_05 17:05

Yeah, she's kind of giving like rigor mortis meets like uh Olivia Pope. Rigor mortis. I didn't think that you like you actually knew what that meant.

SPEAKER_07 17:18

You didn't think I knew what it meant.

SPEAKER_05 17:20

You've never said it before. Okay, back to rigor mortis.

SPEAKER_07 17:23

Yes, so that actually can help people determine like how long someone has been dead, and it can give you like a time window because rigor mortis only sets in this word.

SPEAKER_05 17:33

I think we could I think we have to find a different word. I'm not gonna be able to deny, I'm not gonna be able to hear you say that and not start laughing. So find a different word, quick.

SPEAKER_07 17:47

Okay, Siri, what is a synonym for when your body No Rigor mortises it's like a specific body stiffening thing.

SPEAKER_05 17:59

Like your body like gets cold.

SPEAKER_07 18:01

No, well, it does have to do with the temperature of your body.

SPEAKER_05 18:04

I truly think there is an easier way to say this.

SPEAKER_07 18:08

Rigor mortis is a stiffening of the joints and muscles of a body a few hours after death, usually lasting from one to four days.

SPEAKER_05 18:16

So it's like um it's when it's like Harry Potter, where they get stuffed turned to like almost like a stone. They get um petrified.

SPEAKER_07 18:26

Petrified.

SPEAKER_05 18:27

Let's use petrified.

SPEAKER_07 18:28

Okay, petrified instead of rigor morse.

SPEAKER_05 18:29

Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_07 18:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 18:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_07 18:31

Okay, so um you can see the petrified spell has set in. Um you know what? Fine. I'm sure.

SPEAKER_05 18:40

Because remember, this is what you're teaching me.

SPEAKER_07 18:42

Right, right, right, right, right. Okay. Know your audience. Got it. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 18:46

So treat me like a kindergartner.

SPEAKER_07 18:50

Yeah. Um, so her neck is also very purple. That was like the first thing I saw was how purple her neck was, and her nails, her finger, like the tips of her fingers, and I noticed her like knuckles. Knuckles, they were so purple, and like you and then her veins. You could see it's all just like this unnatural color.

SPEAKER_05 19:08

So Spencer finds Jenna's lifeless body on the bedroom floor and asked her neighbor to call 911.

SPEAKER_06 19:13

Can you touch her see if she's warm to the touch? She's cold. She's cold to the touch. Yes, ma'am. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_05 19:22

Police and paramedics pronounce Jenna dead at the scene. They show a picture of a sheet now over her, but no one can have the courtesy to even make sure she's completely covered. It's like, yeah. Can we put a sheet over the butt- Yep.

SPEAKER_07 19:35

Yeah, that one's fine. That one just just throw it. Yep. It's good enough. Good enough.

SPEAKER_05 19:39

It's good enough. The only injuries that they found on her were a small bruise on her forehead, and they feel compelled to show that one small bruise real up close. Just enough to make you feel a little uncomfy. And she also clenched down on her tongue with her teeth. Oh god.

SPEAKER_07 20:00

Now investigators explain why it doesn't appear to have been any kind of robbery.

SPEAKER_05 20:05

Well, yeah. Until the end.

SPEAKER_07 20:08

Yeah, exactly. We'll get to that. So we see more crime scene photos of the inside of her apartment, and her purse, which I notice watching it again with you, is the exact same like coach wristlet you bought for me one year for Christmas, which is weird, yeah, great gift giver. This one. Her purse was literally hanging on the hook, like at eye level, when you exit the door. So she couldn't ever leave without them. So that was still there. Keys, wallet, wallet with credit cards, wallet with cash. And they were adamant to also state that there were no pills, no alcohol, no indications that she had died by suicide.

SPEAKER_05 20:46

You know what's funny is that I still like could put my keys literally right where she has her wallet. You'd think you wouldn't forget them.

SPEAKER_07 20:55

The problem is because you don't need keys for a car.

SPEAKER_05 20:59

Okay, well, regardless it could just be it could be my wallet. I would put it literally with a sticky note, don't forget. Really? Yeah. And I'll still I'll still forget it. So anyway.

SPEAKER_07 21:09

I think, yeah, I it drives it like blows my mind that men can just like leave with just pockets, stuff in their pockets, no purse.

SPEAKER_05 21:18

I mean I s yeah, I I find that success. Now like every now like it's 2026. We got a cross shoulder like an overshoulder bag, something like never.

SPEAKER_07 21:25

But he does have a diaper bag usually.

SPEAKER_05 21:27

What?

SPEAKER_07 21:28

The diaper bag. Not for himself. For our kids.

SPEAKER_05 21:31

Right, so he's got a purse.

SPEAKER_07 21:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 21:34

Anyways. We have a reenactment, which thank God, because we're in season fourteen, and it's in color. And we see Spencer so he told police he last saw Jenna around midnight as he was leaving to go to his apartment, and then made a phone call a few minutes later to tell her goodnight. So, like he is I'm assuming he lives in the same apartment complex. He does. Okay. I I mean, I don't know if I would call my hey, just want to let you know I know you're stressed. But I am home, even though I uh live four doors down.

SPEAKER_07 22:04

Yeah. That's a call I wouldn't expect to get.

SPEAKER_05 22:06

No, no, no. I did think about that.

SPEAKER_07 22:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 22:09

Um and anyways, phone records showed that he had placed the call at twelve forty-seven AM. Prosecutor Brian Price enters the scene and he's looking like everybody's uncle. And he tells us that.

SPEAKER_04 22:21

We know that she was discovered about eleven thirty the next morning, so we've got, you know, probably less than a 12-hour window when uh Jenna was killed.

SPEAKER_05 22:29

During the autopsy, the medical examiner found no evidence that Jenna had been sexually assaulted, but he couldn't rule it out either.

SPEAKER_07 22:35

And I really like how this medical examiner, um, Dr. Mark Krauss, that's his name. I like And his tie. Oh, yeah, we noticed his tie had bones.

SPEAKER_05 22:45

You noticed it actually. Yeah, you're really into these like small details.

SPEAKER_07 22:49

Oh my god. Bones bones on the medical examiner's tie. Like I mean, did he pick that out or did his wife pick that out for him?

SPEAKER_05 22:57

I think like Cheryl is his wife.

SPEAKER_07 22:59

Or like his granddaughter bought it for him and he was like, Oh, I gotta wear it on the bottom.

SPEAKER_05 23:03

No, it's definitely his wife. Like Cheryl's so proud that this is like his his moment. The blue tie of the one with the bones!

SPEAKER_06 23:09

One with the bones! Oh my god, Mock.

SPEAKER_05 23:12

Look at the one with the bones. Mark you gotta wait with the bones with the bones. You get it? Because yeah, yeah, I'm medical examiner.

SPEAKER_07 23:19

Yeah, you gotta wait with the mom with the bones. Come here, I'll put it on you. Oh, it looks so late.

SPEAKER_05 23:25

I'm so proud of you. Even though they are from Texas.

SPEAKER_06 23:30

Oh, right.

SPEAKER_05 23:32

So who knows where he's from? Cheryl could be from Jersey, you know. Look at you! Look at she with the bones. Oh my gosh, I cannot wait to decredify.

SPEAKER_06 23:42

I can't wait to jump those bones, Lana!

SPEAKER_05 23:48

Meanwhile, he's like, my wife and wear this tire, you like it? Yeah, it's got bones on it. Do you notice it? Oh, you think she never done a podcast before? It can't make any noise. Can't make any noise, or else I'm turning off your mic.

SPEAKER_07 24:05

I am never that mean to you. I just say it a lot more passively.

SPEAKER_05 24:10

I'll give you I'll give you one time. If you make any noise. I said three Okay. Oh, realistically, I knew it was only one time. Like you wouldn't give me three times. You would give me one very stern time, enough for me to not want to ever hold your money on my mic again.

SPEAKER_07 24:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 24:29

Just like I have this gum right here. Stop chewing it because you guys get on Danielle's bedside, even though she takes two hours to get ready for this podcast. God forbid, you chew a piece of gum. Anyways, moving on.

SPEAKER_07 24:46

I'm not even going to enter that fight right now. Okay. So I was saying, I really do like this medical examiner, Dr. Mark Krauss. He is one of the more logical ones that we've met on this show so far, and it's just really refreshing to know that there were people like him back in, you know, the field in 2008 that were thinking outside the box.

SPEAKER_08 25:06

It has been my experience in some 30 years of performing autopsy examinations that the lack of genital injuries does not rule out a sexual assault.

SPEAKER_07 25:18

But he did find small broken blood vessels in the whites of Jenna's eyes known as petechial hemorrhages. But Dr. Mark, I think you Dr. Mark says that petial hemorrhages are in that constellation of findings that we refer to as stigmata of asphyxiation.

SPEAKER_05 25:41

Right, which is very like questionable because we hear stigmata and we think of like we think of the movie Stigmata and it's possession of a demon.

SPEAKER_07 25:52

Well it's not that yeah, no, and she goes through the stages of the like the cross.

SPEAKER_05 25:58

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 25:59

You've seen that movie, stigmata.

SPEAKER_05 26:00

Yeah, scared the shit out of me.

SPEAKER_07 26:02

Me too. So it came I had to look it up. It came out in 1999, and it was my 17-year-old brother's movie. I was definitely not allowed to watch it at 10 years old, and I did. And I regretted it because it wrecked me for a while.

SPEAKER_05 26:17

So like see, because we are going to Catholic school at this time.

SPEAKER_07 26:20

Yeah, and I really thought like stigmatas could happen.

SPEAKER_05 26:24

I think they can if you believe in if you believe in that. Anyways.

SPEAKER_07 26:31

And that's where we draw the line. Okay, yep.

SPEAKER_05 26:34

I felt it. I did feel it. I did feel it.

SPEAKER_07 26:37

I don't know. Some kids were terrorized by movies like The Ring. Shout out to my old boss Neil, who produced it. Um, but you know, little 10-year-old me, uh, she was traumatizing herself by watching things like Stigmata, Urban Legends. Did you you remember that one?

SPEAKER_05 26:53

Love classic. That's a classic.

SPEAKER_07 26:55

That stuck with me. I still check the background. Urban Legends are.

SPEAKER_05 26:57

Yeah, Urban Legends definitely fucked me up a little bit.

SPEAKER_07 27:00

And I don't understand why it doesn't have as much of a following.

SPEAKER_05 27:03

Like no, because it's like it fell into that, like that one time frame of all those scary movies, like Scream, Urban Legends. I know you did like all.

SPEAKER_07 27:13

But Urban Legends, not as many people remember Urban Legends. They remember the legends.

SPEAKER_05 27:17

Well, Dr. Krauss is back, and he says that this kind of stigmata tells him that he needs to look at the cause of asphyxiation. And he found it. Jenna's larynx had been crushed. Peter is giving dramatic readings with The conclusion was inescapable. But Dr. Krauss keeps a professional and says this is strangulation, and in great probability, manual strangulation by hands.

SPEAKER_07 27:40

I'm no doctor or anything if that's not super obvious.

SPEAKER_05 27:44

I am surprised. I'm a doctor. Emergency room, to be exact. And on my shift starts soon, so you guys all thought I was not smart.

SPEAKER_07 27:55

You are more smarter than.

SPEAKER_05 27:56

I'm more smarter than you think.

SPEAKER_07 28:00

So, um anyway.

SPEAKER_05 28:04

Dead giveaway, dead giveaway. Anyways, go ahead.

SPEAKER_07 28:07

Yeah, but like I said, right from the start, one look at those crime scene photos, especially at her neck, and I had immediately guessed she was strangled just because that is not what your neck looks like. Um, but you know, forensic. Anyways, Peter then says a background check revealed that over the years Spencer and Jenna broken up several times, dated others, but always made up and got back together.

SPEAKER_05 28:34

Sounds like a true college relationship.

SPEAKER_07 28:36

Yeah, yeah. But the way he worded that, it sounded so official, like that they had pulled up some sort of like record with a DMV and it like listed, you know, May 2007. Spencer made a comment about Jenna's prom dress colors.

SPEAKER_05 28:48

Oh my god, could you imagine?

SPEAKER_07 28:49

He almost blew it.

SPEAKER_05 28:50

Could you imagine if that was real life?

SPEAKER_07 28:52

Exactly. That's what that's what I'm saying. Like, could you imagine if the police or like anyone could pull up your whole dating history record?

SPEAKER_05 28:59

You know, it would probably save so many arguments, to be honest with you. Oh, you oh, you think you said that? No, because one second.

SPEAKER_07 29:08

You're wrong. I think there is a Black Mirror episode about this. Probably. It's like a video recorder of all their memories, and they can like scan back. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 29:16

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'd be in shit trouble. But I am a good boyfriend. Accepting applications now?

SPEAKER_07 29:26

And I'm his reference.

SPEAKER_06 29:27

Exactly.

SPEAKER_05 29:33

Well, then we hear we did ask Spencer if he had killed Jenna. And his response was absolutely no. Oh good. Takes care of that. Thank God. Right. One little question. You didn't kill her, right? Nope. Great. Wonderful. Fantastic. Write that one down. Write that one down. Alright, moving on, everyone.

SPEAKER_07 29:56

Hi everyone. Sorry for this brief uh interruption, but we had a major technical failure. We lost the whole end of this episode. And it picked back up at Drew and I going, that was so good. That's literally like it's all dark. And we're just like that was so good. And there's nothing. So absolutely delusional. So here we are. We're gonna pick back up with the episode. We're gonna run through it. Um, and we hope you enjoy. Thanks for um sticking it out with us.

SPEAKER_05 30:29

As investigators continued to look into Jenna's background, they learned she was well liked. She didn't have any enemies, she didn't have any fights with people, she didn't have arguments or disagreements. Everybody had nothing but good things to say about her. Jenna was a dedicated student who was working her way through school as a raitress at a local restaurant. She worked almost full-time hours at Wings and Moore while taking classes. And on the night of her murder, Jenna worked at the restaurant until about 9 p.m.

SPEAKER_07 30:55

Surveillance tapes revealed nothing suspicious. They saw Jenna walking to her vehicle and they didn't find anybody following her. This is when the story does get scary though. Jenna returned to her apartment around 9 30. Her boyfriend stopped by, then they spent about three hours studying together, and then he left after midnight. They were really attached to each other, but how does it look for Spencer having been the last one to see her?

SPEAKER_06 31:18

You know, alive.

SPEAKER_07 31:20

So Jenna's neighbors provided a possible lead. On the night of the murder, the neighbors were playing sand volleyball in the courtyard between the apartment buildings around midnight. They saw a man walking from the direction of Jenna's apartment. And if this is around midnight, Spencer called around 1245. I'm kind of wondering how this all works out, but the reenactment that they give us, it gives us the impression that they had actually spoken to each other on the phone call, so she had to have been alive at that point.

SPEAKER_05 31:50

Well, now enters the gross shirtless man we saw in the beginning of the episode. The witnesses claim he was acting very upset and that the suspicious topless male had come out anywhere between the hours of midnight and two a.m.

SPEAKER_07 32:02

And this is where I really want more context because how did we go from around midnight to now 2 a.m.? I mean that's a two-hour time window when this topless man appeared. Yeah. So it's stories like this that have me like look at clocks after hearing weird noises. I like will imprint timestamps on my mind. You know, literally, okay, just in case the police call me tomorrow. It was 6 59.

SPEAKER_05 32:25

Yeah, exactly. Well, that's super descriptive. Detective is back to tell us.

SPEAKER_00 32:30

In fact, some of the girls that were playing said that he looked scary.

SPEAKER_05 32:34

Wonderful. You are really nailing this investigation. But luckily, the witnesses had more specific info for us and said that the man resembled 26-year-old Sean Stevens, also a college student who lived in an adjoining apartment building. According to friends, he'd once made a vulgar remark to Jenna in the parking lot.

SPEAKER_01 32:53

Detective Lance Matthews says, It was more or less just some cat calls and stuff from Sean's balcony down to the girls, and uh there were some words exchanged between Jenna and Sean.

SPEAKER_05 33:05

Uh Sean's apartment had a direct line of sight to Jenna's apartment, and when police contacted him, Sean was extremely nervous and was literally shaking. And you know what? Good. But he keeps that vulgar mouth shut now. Sean denied any involvement in Jenna's murder, and he also said he wasn't the topless man walking from Jenna's apartment on the night of her murder. But he couldn't provide any actual accurate information about where he had been that night due to a large consumption of alcohol. Then police made a break in the case. Two months before her murder, Jenna told her family about an incident involving her apartment's maintenance man.

SPEAKER_07 33:38

Again, I would really like more context on a moment like this because I just want to know like how they discovered this. Was it a tip? Did she make a police report? Did she complain to the apartment staff? And then it came out during interviews. I know they say like her family told them about the incident, but like I want to know like how they were able to confirm it. So we're told about an incident that is quite literally a nightmare of mine. One morning after she got out of the shower, she found the maintenance man standing in her living room. And he was there when he wasn't asked to be there. And she didn't know that he was there or coming. And the reenactment, it just doesn't do it justice that they do in the show for how actually scary that would be for a woman coming out of a shower and just seeing anyone there, but a man, you know, that if you just not welcome there, had no reason to be there.

SPEAKER_05 34:32

Oh my god, that is so nightmare. Yeah. Well, according to Jenna, the man claimed he didn't hear the water running, and believing the apartment was empty, he walked inside. Understandably, Jenna became very upset and contacted the supervisor of the maintenance worker and explained to him what had happened. The worker's name was Jeremy Rosser. He was 29 years old, divorced with two children, and he had never been in any trouble with the law. And he also comes from a religious background. Shocking. Shocking. But it gets worse. His father is a pastor in a nearby town.

SPEAKER_07 35:06

The fact that this doesn't surprise me is what should be most alarming of all.

SPEAKER_05 35:10

Period, period. But police were more than a little suspicious, so they conducted an experiment. See whether Rosser's explanation had been truthful. When detectives Fry and Matthews go back to the apartment complex, they actually stand right at the front of the door and have someone go into Jenna's bathroom and turn the shower on, close the door to the bathroom, and then they say from the front threshold of the door, you can clearly hear that the shower is running inside that apartment. So that that means that that is a completely false statement.

SPEAKER_07 35:39

Do you think this is real or that production was like, okay, let's make this a little bit more exciting to watch? Because this isn't the gotcha moment I think they thought it would be. You know, like I felt it was like a fifth grade class experiment. No one believed him about the water. I can assure you that. And also, you're giving me no details. Like, was there a work order for him to be there? Did you check on that? Was there something he needed to work on? He could have also claimed he had headphones in, too. I mean, come on, like, I just hate when a show treats the audience so dumb.

SPEAKER_05 36:10

Well, coincidentally, Rosser was fired one week after Jenna's murder. He had been terminated or fired because he wasn't coming to work anymore. You don't know? Why don't we have some more clarity on that specific thing alone? That seems more important to know because then without any other details, we then find out police wanted to question Rosser, but he left town after he lost his job. Surprise, surprise. And no one knew where he was. I mean, this this is just a damn mess.

SPEAKER_07 36:38

Wait, and then they discover that Jenna's boyfriend, Spencer, was missing too.

SPEAKER_05 36:44

Surprise, surprise.

SPEAKER_00 36:46

Certainly, our first area of focus was on Spencer, as he was the last one to see her and the first one to find her. Uh, it did not help his case any that he had suddenly left town.

SPEAKER_05 36:56

Then I actually thought I was mishearing this.

SPEAKER_03 36:58

I had to rewind it because Peter says that left Sean Stevens, and he was nowhere to be found either.

SPEAKER_04 37:07

He's gone. He's not at school anymore, he's not at the apartment complex anymore.

SPEAKER_01 37:11

This made us a little bit suspicious.

SPEAKER_07 37:13

I love how the only woman speaking on this case is reporter Ashley.

SPEAKER_02 37:19

And she goes, I started to realize they just have no idea. They have no idea who did this.

SPEAKER_05 37:24

Police had three potential suspects in the murder of Jennifer Halen. Her boyfriend Spencer Hood, Sean Stevens, who matched the description of the man seen leaving Jenna's apartment building the night of the murder, and Jeremy Rosser, a maintenance man at Jenna's apartment complex, who had once entered her apartment without any cause or warning or any explanation for why he was there.

SPEAKER_07 37:46

And with the exception of Spencer, the other two weirdly do look alike, and they're just like mediocre white dudes. Just so mediocre white dudes.

SPEAKER_05 37:55

Investigators hope scientists could find forensic evidence that would help narrow their search.

SPEAKER_07 38:00

So I guess this is why we are all here. Time for biological evidence.

SPEAKER_05 38:04

Is there skin?

SPEAKER_07 38:05

Is there hair?

SPEAKER_05 38:06

There may be fibers.

SPEAKER_07 38:07

There may be bits of material from a scene.

SPEAKER_05 38:09

Or from dirt.

SPEAKER_07 38:10

Or something on a person's clothing. First, scientists discovered skin cells under Jenna's fingernails, which is not unusual when the victim is involved in a strangulation or a struggle of any kind. They extracted DNA and discovered there were two genetic profiles, both male. One a minor contributor and one a major contributor. So investigators also found a drop of blood on Jenna's shirt collar and two drops of blood on the carpet near Jenna's body. One of those did come back to be Jenna's DNA, and the other one came back to be the same unknown male contributor, they use that word a lot, that was detected in the nail samples and on the neck of the shirt.

SPEAKER_05 38:49

We see the reenactment and hear that it's apparent that she was fighting for her life. She was scratching him, scratching him deeply, and hard enough that he's actively bleeding. Then the monotone detective says, This DNA evidence was extremely exciting to us. Armed with the killer's DNA, investigators wanted DNA samples from Jenna's boyfriend Spencer Hood, her neighbor Sean Stevens, and the maintenance man Jeremy Rosser. While police searched for them, they also conducted a DNA dragnet. They asked other men who lived in her apartment complex as well as male co-workers for DNA samples. Nearly 50 people willingly complied, but no one matched. Eventually, police found Jenna's boyfriend three hours away at his parents' house. He explained he was he was just upset. Him and Jenna were very close, and he wanted to be with his family, which is actually the most reasonable explanation. Spencer was entirely cooperative. He allowed police to photograph him without a shirt, and police found no scratch marks on his body. He also answered questions without an attorney present and willingly provided a DNA sample.

SPEAKER_07 39:48

And listen, I understand this all looks good for Spencer. And people tend to assume if you have nothing to hide, then why do you need an attorney? But always get an attorney. You always have an attorney present. Always, always, always, always. Okay. Next, police track down Sean Stevens at his parents' home, 450 miles away in Oklahoma. Sean said he went home to see his brother who was on leave from military service in Iraq. And what's ironic is this is close to the years that my own brother was actually stationed in Iraq. Yeah. So, anyways, this was, of course, another reasonable explanation of why Sean left town. Now, Sean provided a DNA sample without police having to resort to a court order either. And now that leaves Jeremy Rosser, the maintenance man, as the last remaining suspect. Police were able to locate him through his ex-wife, who sounds like she had been waiting for this call one day. If not worried that this would have been her own fate. Because she was more than willing to tell police that Jeremy was violent at the time of their divorce, that they got into an argument, he shoved her to the ground, and while she was on the ground, he kneeled over her and put both hands around her neck. Coincidentally, this incident occurred right around the time of Jenna's murder. But for investigators, Peter says there's just one problem. A criminal check was done of Rosser's background, and it showed no instances where he had been arrested in the past. How is that? How is that the problem? Because he's at the prime age of his behavior to be going through stressful life circumstances, was in her apartment suspiciously before her murder, and his DNA was found on her. Literally. I'm not sure if we've covered that yet, have we? Did I just jump the gun? But the fact that Jenna resembles his ex-wife is also just more reason to why I think she was targeted.

SPEAKER_05 41:34

Exactly. When police questioned Rosser, he denied any involvement. He was very calm. But in Rosser's truck, investigators found a laptop computer. The serial number was traced to a tenant living in Jenna's apartment complex who reported it stolen months earlier. They also found Rosser still had keys to the apartments. This indicated to us that Rosser had likely gone into many apartments during his term there as a maintenance worker. But Jenna's apartment key was not among the keys found in Jeremy's possession. Surprisingly, Jeremy willingly provided a DNA sample. He was so cooperative that the detectives didn't think that Jeremy was their guy simply due to how cooperative he was and his calm demeanor. So had they not been able to collect and test the DNA under Jenna's nails or on the collar of his shirt or on the carpet, they may have never actually solved this crime.

SPEAKER_02 42:24

Without the forensic evidence, I don't think there would have been an arrest.

SPEAKER_03 42:31

The DNA results left no doubt. Jeremy Rosser was in Jenna's apartment on the night of the murder.

SPEAKER_05 42:40

Okay, now we know that without a doubt, Jeremy Rosser was in Jenna's apartment on the night of the murder, but still no clues as to why he did this to Jenna. We hear that when police arrested Roster, he wasn't surprised.

SPEAKER_04 42:51

I would like to say that Jenna, in her last moments, I guess, fought like she always fights. And she's been a fighter. And that was enough to help us identify who this person was so that we could uh try and achieve some small sense of justice for her and her family.

SPEAKER_05 43:06

So here is forensic files theory as to what happened that night.

SPEAKER_07 43:10

Prosecutors believe that Rosser's intrusion into Jenna's apartment while she was in the shower was no accident.

SPEAKER_05 43:16

After that encounter, prosecutors believe Rosser used his master key again on the night of the murder to enter Jenna's apartment while she was at work.

SPEAKER_07 43:23

This time they believe he hid in Jenna's second bedroom and waited for her.

SPEAKER_05 43:27

Jenna came home around 9 30 p.m.

SPEAKER_07 43:29

But her boyfriend Spencer Hood had also stopped by. Something Rosser probably didn't anticipate.

SPEAKER_05 43:34

This forced Rosser to wait another three hours.

SPEAKER_07 43:37

Spencer left shortly after midnight.

SPEAKER_05 43:39

But he called Jenna at twelve forty seven to say goodnight.

SPEAKER_07 43:42

And after that call, Jenna went to bed. Then at some point, Rosser attacked.

SPEAKER_05 43:46

Jenna fought for her life, scratching him, collecting his skin cells.

SPEAKER_07 43:50

But unfortunately, he strangled her to death.

SPEAKER_05 43:52

Tiny drops of Rosser's blood landed on Jenna's shirt and on the rug next to her body.

SPEAKER_04 43:56

There's no screaming, yelling. I'm innocent. What are you talking about? It's just Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_05 44:01

When charged with Jenna's murder, Rosser admitted he was guilty in order to spare his family the ordeals of a trial. Rosser never revealed his motive.

SPEAKER_07 44:09

Okay, then Detective Lance contradicts everything this episode has tried to fit for a theory, and Lance is like, Nope, F that. I'm gonna do my own thing, and even though I stated nothing was taken, and the fact that he waited for her in the apartment while she was gone, took nothing during that time, then attacked her while she was alone and asleep with my whole chest.

SPEAKER_01 44:28

I'm gonna tell the world that it's possible that Jeremy entered Jenna's apartment to burglarize it.

SPEAKER_07 44:34

The show literally built the entire theory off the fact that he targeted Jenna specifically and gave the impression it was sexually motivated.

SPEAKER_06 44:41

Right.

SPEAKER_07 44:42

And then told us that he was in the apartment for almost three hours for her, waiting for her, and then another three until her boyfriend was gone, and then even after murdering her, he doesn't burgle anything. Anything for six hours, and he doesn't even take a purse hanging next to the door. But you're gonna land on he could have been there to burgalize it.

SPEAKER_05 45:02

Yeah, yeah. Well, Peter hears Lance room their whole theory with two minutes left of the episode and tries his best to course correct.

SPEAKER_03 45:08

It's also possible the assault had something to do with his marital problems at the time.

SPEAKER_00 45:14

Jenna looked very similar in build to Rosser's ex-wife.

SPEAKER_05 45:19

Regardless of what Lance thinks, the forensic evidence was crucial to this case, especially because they don't have a motive.

SPEAKER_07 45:27

Luckily, science was on the side of justice, and Jeremy Rosser was convicted of Jennifer Halen's murder and was sentenced to 55 years in prison.

SPEAKER_05 45:35

That's right, bitch. Jenna had her life ahead of her, and it's such a tragic event that it has to happen to honestly, like someone as good hearted as this girl. Like it was this is really sad. Are there any updates with this one?

SPEAKER_07 45:48

There are no updates that I could find. Yeah, yeah. But there is quite a bit of extra coverage on the case out there, like podcast blogs, even some Instagram reels, actually.

SPEAKER_06 45:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_07 46:00

Yeah. So the only thing that stood out to me was according to thesinemaholic.com, Jeremy will be eligible for parole in 2036 under 10 years. So that website also states that Jeremy left his job the day of the murder, not days or weeks later, like the show reported.

SPEAKER_05 46:18

I mean, that's crazy. That's 10 years. That's not that long.

SPEAKER_07 46:21

I know.

SPEAKER_05 46:22

Now for our missing persons case, this comes from the Black and Missing Foundation website and Instagram. We have the case of Christian Muse. He was last seen missing on July 15th, 2012. That's the day after my birthday. And he's missing from Fort Washington, Maryland. His age now is 43. He's black. His complexion is light. He's 5'11, 145 pounds. His hair color is black, his hair length is short, and his eye color is brown. The location that Christian was last seen was in the 6200 block of Dimrill Court in Fort Washington, Maryland on July 15, 2012. He called a family member, but the call was missed, and Christian has never been seen or heard from again. Authorities and his family believe Christian may be a victim of unfortunately trafficking. If you have any information, you are asked to please contact the Prince George's County Police Department at 301-352-1200, or you can text all in capital letters, capital B A M F I at 877-97 B A M F I. Or you can visit the Black and Missing Foundation's website at www.bamfi.org. Thank you.

SPEAKER_07 47:34

Thank you. Okay. Well, until the next one.

SPEAKER_05 47:37

Until the next one. If you like our podcast, please help us spread the word. Share on social media, share on Reddit, share everywhere, and drop a review to tell us what you think. We also have our bonus series that is out now. We were about to release episode two. It's called Cameras and Chaos.

SPEAKER_07 47:55

Thanks, everyone. Bye. Thank you. Bye.

SPEAKER_05 47:59

That was so good. How can we check it?

SPEAKER_07 48:01

What sucks is that 11% upload. So we don't even know where it stopped. Recording in session.

SPEAKER_06 48:12

What do you mean?