Sandra, Betty & Jane Does Ep - "Insect Clues"

We dive into the chilling Episode “Insect Clues,” recapping the groundbreaking case that helped put forensic entomology on the map.

In 1988, the body of 29-year-old Sandra Cwik was discovered in a remote area outside San Diego, California. With little physical evidence and few leads, investigators turned to an unusual source for answers: insects.

What followed would become one of the earliest high-profile murder cases solved using forensic entomology, ultimately leading detectives to serial killer Ronald Elliot Porter.

At the end of the episode, we spotlight the tragic case of Emily Pike, a 14-year-old Indigenous girl whose murder sparked national outrage and renewed conversations surrounding the Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls crisis.

Listener discretion is strongly advised.

Sources: YouTube | Forensics Files | Ap News

The Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and People (MMIWP) Toolkit

Transcript

SPEAKER_09 0:00

Hey friends, Danielle here from the Forensic Files Duo podcast. I'm starting a new mini-series called Marketplace Mysteries. I want to hear about the odd, eerie, or unexpected side of selling and buying online. You know those marketplace meetups that just feel a little off? Maybe the seller gave you a weird vibe. Maybe you found out later they weren't who they said they were. Or maybe it was just one of those, I cannot believe that happened moments. If you've got a story, funny, sketchy, or just plain strange, slide into my DMs. Your close call could be featured in an upcoming episode. It doesn't have to be scary, just mysterious. Let's dig into the strange side of marketplace together.

SPEAKER_10 0:37

Cute.

SPEAKER_09 0:38

All right, Drew. How is working on burlesque on the West End? I need to hear about something exciting to raise my adrenaline here. Please, please, because the highlight reel of my day is like baskets today are arriving from IKEA.

SPEAKER_10 0:53

I never in my wildest dreams would be just like in close counters with the iconic Queen Christina Aguilera. It was just such an iconic moment for myself because not being a performer in the show, but working on the show on the other end, it was very nerve-wracking to like have her in the audience on opening night and seeing her face light up, and she is such a fan of the show.

SPEAKER_02 1:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 1:20

It just makes everything like worth working in the show like a proud moment.

SPEAKER_09 1:25

Well, that is so, so amazing. I'm so excited for you. I love these burlesque updates. It's just, I'm living for it. I love it. Ready to get into it?

SPEAKER_10 1:34

5678. Let's do it. Welcome to the Forensic Files Duo podcast, where we recap, review, and provide updates on the cases featured on the True Crime TV show Forensic Files. I'm true, and I know nothing about True Crime until we started this podcast.

SPEAKER_09 2:07

And I'm Danielle and True Crime Raisme.

SPEAKER_10 2:10

If you're listening to us for the very first time and want to hear more about our friendship and how we became the Forensics Duo many moons ago, head over to episode one for the whole backstory. But real quick, we have been best friends since high school.

SPEAKER_09 2:24

We competed in an acting club called Forensics in the duo category where you act out scenes from a play and it had nothing to do with forensic science.

SPEAKER_10 2:33

But listen, if you're everyone is going to assume we were sassy little Sherlock solving crime in high school, who are we to disrupt their fabulous perspective of us?

SPEAKER_09 2:42

Exactly. And now you all understand the backstory behind the name of the podcast. So to the old dudes on Reddit who got their panties really twisted about us, quote unquote, profiting off of the forensic file's name by using their name in the podcast, I'd like to set the record straight. Do you have yes? You now have been informed that Drew and I have been a forensics duo since 2003. And two, this podcast is actually costing me money to host, equip, edit, and produce. So thank you for giving me a perfect segue to say if anyone is looking to sponsor a true kind podcast, we would gladly consider compensation for our creative efforts for researching, writing, producing, recording, editing, and marketing this podcast. Is it Jackie? Maybe. Am I a shame? Not one bit. Okay. Okay. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_10 3:31

Wait, that's real. Someone thought that we were like.

SPEAKER_09 3:34

Yeah, they like called me out because watching forensic files with 2025 eyes, yeah, yeah. It can be a little cringy sometimes. Yeah. It's hard to see of how they did things and how they saw things and the type of like verbiage they use and how they talk about victims. And they like for someone that's using their name and profiting off of the forensic files name in your podcast. And I was like, profiting, bro. Listen, take a take many seats. Yeah. One, we are not profiting.

SPEAKER_02 4:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 4:05

Two, we have a little bit of a claim to the name ourselves, okay?

SPEAKER_10 4:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 4:09

Take many a seats.

SPEAKER_10 4:11

Wow, I did not know that. Now time for our regular disclaimer.

SPEAKER_09 4:15

We understand that we will be discussing a lot of sensitive topics. So although we may laugh at times, please remember that we are laughing at ourselves and ourselves always. We are not making light of what the victims and their families have gone through and may continue to be going through.

SPEAKER_10 4:29

And in an effort to use the public's overall interest in the show Forensic Files and leverage the power of digital media, once the episode coverage is over, we will highlight a missing person's case.

SPEAKER_09 4:38

Today's episode is listed on Wikipedia, a season one, episode 10, called Insect Clues. I hope no one is eating anything, because this is such a disgusting episode. And mom, my darlene, this is what your nightmares are made out of truly, truly is just horrible.

SPEAKER_10 4:56

It's horrible. Like I could not picture a worse moment than like lifting some something up and seeing Yep.

SPEAKER_09 5:06

Clusters. Clusters of things it grosses me out, clusters of bumps, like rashes, clusters of bugs. It's instant pins and needles in my I want to throw up. It's loss of all appetite. Like I usually lose my appetite while I'm watching true crime things, but like like Law and Order SVU says, this episode is especially heinous.

SPEAKER_10 5:26

Yes, it is this one. Do we have any info on the city at this time?

SPEAKER_09 5:34

Yes. So in 1988, late 80s, San Diego, it's transitioning into the modern tech focused city that it is today. So it um still had strong roots in its military presence, you know, and coastal lifestyle. So the city is home to multiple naval bases. The Marine Corps is there. I actually went to the Marine Corps ball while I lived in California. Did you? Yeah. Military wife, not a title I would ever be able to hold. Yeah. Major respect to those who hold it, but not one I could ever hold. Um I lived many lives, I feel like.

SPEAKER_10 6:12

Um yeah.

SPEAKER_09 6:18

Anyways, this is an urban legend that has haunted the area related to Point Loma. Uh, it's said to be cursed due to the tragic stories of shipwrecks, ghost ships, and unexplained disappearances in the waters near the cliffs. There's an area of maritime history. It gave rise to eerie tales of ships doomed to be lost in the fog. Some even claiming to have seen ghostly vessels drifting near the shore. Yeah, I thought you'd like that one. Um, also, fun fact it's the it's where the first large-scale Comic-Con international event was held in 1988. Yeah, that's random, right? A pivotal year in the city's cultural history marking the beginning of what would become one of the largest pop cultural conventions in the world.

SPEAKER_02 7:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 7:07

This would help propel San Diego as a global hub for entertainment and nerd culture, quote unquote nerd culture. Um I feel like nerd culture has like really helped society. I just want to put that out. I really feel like nerd culture becoming like a mainstream thing has helped society. Because like before nerd culture, there was like, I don't know, like drugs, sex, and rock and roll culture, which did not do good things for society. So nerd culture all the way. Cause here we go. Not so fun fact is the crack cocaine epidemic that gripped the nation in the late 1980s also had a significant impact on San Diego at this time. So the rise of this crack cocaine epidemic fueled a spike in drug-related violence, particularly in the marginalized neighborhoods. The drug trade led to turf wars, criminal gangs competing for control of drug distribution, smuggling across the US-Mexican border became a serious issue in San Diego. Okay, so now you have a snapshot of the 80s in San Diego.

SPEAKER_10 8:10

Well, Peter spares us nothing right out the gate. You guys, you will be triggered. Just take your Xanax, come numb to this one if you're going to join us at all.

SPEAKER_08 8:27

Between 1985 and 1988, 18 transients, hitchhikers, and prostitutes were choked, sexually molested, and left for dead in the desert mountains of California. The only witnesses, the insects of the desert. And they also turned out to be extremely important pieces of evidence.

SPEAKER_10 8:50

The first like five minutes of this episode is cringe sentence after cringe sentence after cringe sentence, okay? So I apologize for everything I'm about to say, but we are told they are choked, molested, gosh, dumped, and left for dead in the high desert mountains of San Diego, California. Not all of them died, and those who survived all described the same scenario. We even see what I'm thinking is actual crime scene footage of a victim being pulled out of an ambulance into the hospital. You guys, her hands are still bound, her eyes are covered with like a gauze-looking tape. Like they picked her up as is and and took her right from the crime scene. And I feel like I shouldn't even be allowed to see this.

SPEAKER_09 9:33

Yeah, Drew, I feel like this entire episode is I'm seeing something and hearing something I just should not be seeing.

SPEAKER_02 9:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 9:41

You know, it's like all way too personal. I did not consent, they did not consent. I don't know what I like. What am I seeing? Uh it's just I I don't know. Like, we mutually did not consent to any of this. Like there was no content warning before the I now get why there are content warnings before TV shows. It's forensic files' fault. This episode's fault. You know what I mean? It's just this whole thing from beginning to end, middle. It really is crazy.

SPEAKER_10 10:07

It's crazy. Well, we meet district attorney Jeff Dusick, and he says several of them had their pants undone, pulled down, one lady had a nipple ring removed, so we thought there had been some sort of sexual activity, but because they were unconscious, we had no proof of it, quote unquote. What in the 1980s is that kind of bullshit? So what else did police think that the murderer was doing to them? Checking out the name brand of the clothes and stealing jewelry? Come on now.

SPEAKER_09 10:34

The commentary. It just gets tougher and tougher. So, okay, once we meet survivor Betty Bass, I'm not gonna use the commentary that they use. Peter tells us that she has a history of mental illness and is currently unhoused. Well, Peter, no shit. If I went through what she went through, I would too. And your show is now exploiting Betty Bass and her pain and her trauma. So you better have changed her housing status, but I doubt it because then I looked it up. And generally it says that victims and their families are not compensated on this show. So yeah, I doubt it. I I doubt it. So that's total BS. Yeah. Betty can vividly recall what happened to her that night eight years ago, and she is so brave here, and she shares her story on TV.

SPEAKER_10 11:16

After leaving a motel on El Cajon Boulevard, she looked for a ride going towards Ramona, California. Man in a silver car pulled up and offered to take her.

SPEAKER_03 11:24

He had a clean car. So I thought, you know, that's a pretty good guy. Pretty nice guy, you know.

SPEAKER_09 11:31

I just thought he was okay. As they drove over the mountains, the driver said he needed to pull off the highway to take a bathroom break.

SPEAKER_10 11:38

When the driver walked around the car, he asked Betty to grab something from the back seat.

SPEAKER_09 11:43

As she did, he wrapped her arms around her neck and choked her.

SPEAKER_10 11:46

The last thing she remembers was losing consciousness.

SPEAKER_03 11:50

So I walked and I walked and I walked. Well, I finally um crawled over this fence. I crawled to the other side of the street. Some family came by and put me in their motor home, and uh ate me up a little bit, and then they took me to the hospital.

SPEAKER_09 12:09

When she woke up, she walked up this hill looking for help.

SPEAKER_10 12:11

We see the scene of the attack and the dirt, the car tracks, and then you could see actual footprints. I forgot to mention that we're in season one and it's full color, and this is a lot of footage for season one. Like this is a ton of video evidence in real time for this case. I mean, this is less reenactments and more actual footage of the step-by-step case, as if the investigators are taking us along with them. Almost, maybe a little bit too much, but we then see that they found her clothing, shoe, and tire prints and also recovered two Marlboro cigarette butts.

SPEAKER_09 12:46

Also on Betty Bass's shirt, detectives notice tiny red carpet fiber. This feels like classic forensic files evidence. Like when I think forensic files, I think carpet fibers. I actually rarely think DNA, like human DNA, like saliva and stuff, which is probably weird for people to hear because I just think that's like a testament to when I first watched forensic files. And it's because it's like really early episodes that I got introduced to. So police thought Betty's attack sounded identical to these other cases in the area just one month earlier. Two young girls were hitchhiking together at a restaurant near the interstate highway, and we almost made it without black and white reenactments.

SPEAKER_10 13:31

Almost. But we see a very creepy silver compact automobile pull up, and a middle-aged man offers them a ride.

SPEAKER_06 13:40

Where are your girls gone?

SPEAKER_10 13:41

We're heading to Tucson.

SPEAKER_06 13:43

Take you as far as El Centro.

SPEAKER_10 13:45

Okay. Then Peter.

SPEAKER_08 13:49

It was a ride they'll never forget.

SPEAKER_09 13:55

So next we see one of the girls rushing out of a semi-truck into a diner. It's a chaotic reenactment. It doesn't feel like we're like one month earlier. It honestly feels like we're 20 years earlier. But to make it easier to understand for those just listening, it seems like she got a ride from another truck driver. All of a sudden, we're just like shot into this whole new scene. She runs into a nearby diner that he dropped her off at, like just like a good Samaritan or something. These people are not moving, like these extras that must be in the scene. Like they are not moving. They look like these animatronic cowboys that are about to like sing a blues songs, you know. Like, I don't even know. They're not moving at all. Yeah. And she runs to a payphone to call 911. And for anyone that doesn't know, gather around youngins, like gather around, it's a public landline phone that you had to pay to use. And she says that her friend was strangled by a man that picked them up while hitchhiking. She thinks her friend is dead, but she got away and she has no idea who this man is.

SPEAKER_10 15:00

Her friend, though, who that she thought was dead, was later found in the desert, frightened but still alive. The victims all provided a similar description of their attacker. Jeff, the DA, is back and tells us that the attacker is about early 40s, short hair, blondish grayish color, and has glasses. That's how they all described him. But then he says, obviously, these were people who are going to take rides from anyone. Watch your mouth, Jeffrey. And the next line he says, Many of them told us they felt comfortable getting in the car with him, which means that they've scanned the situation. And they looked for signs of danger, which means they wouldn't just get in the car with anyone. He fooled them, and he is a wolf in sheep's clothing. Stop putting any blame on them. Stop that right now.

SPEAKER_09 15:49

And it's just like, hey, forensic files. Like you can still edit that line out in post. Yeah. That's still an option for you. You know what I mean? Like it's still an option. And a lot of these choices are available to you. Like blurring. Blurring is a blurring is an option. It's still an editing option. And it's something we should discuss for this episode. You know, we can discuss that later on. Yeah. Later on. Content warnings. Content warnings. Like message me, girl. My DMs are open.

SPEAKER_10 16:20

Well, there were other similarities with all of these attacks. Criminal investigator Roger Bowen is here in all his huge 90s eye glasses, air glasses, glory, to tell us that the things he said to these women, it was almost like he had a script. I can only take you miles. I'm only going to El Centro.

SPEAKER_04 16:41

The type of people he was victimizing were the vulnerable people in society. Some people who were having mental problems, uh, drug addicts, uh, street people, hitchhikers.

SPEAKER_09 16:51

Oh my gosh, we're only five minutes in. Okay, let's pick it up because this is when things just take a turn for the worse. Okay. You should be so grateful at this point that this is not a visual format. At this point in the investigation, police had a description of the suspect, some tire tracks, and shoeprint evidence, but little else.

SPEAKER_10 17:10

Suddenly we jump to San Diego's El Cajon Boulevard, and Peter tells us it's where prostitutes, runaways, and transients have congregated for years. Apparently, the reason is because of its location. It's close to a highway entrance ramp, which makes it convenient for hitchhikers looking for a ride. Because of that, it was here where many of the victims were picked up.

SPEAKER_09 17:31

After that very random shot of the boulevard, Jeff the DA tells us very bluntly that we have a series of live victims and we also have dead victims, who we think are part of the pattern.

SPEAKER_10 17:43

Common footprints. Common tire tracks. Same type of victims. Same picked-up spot. Same disposal spot. And detectives were called to Sheep's Head Mountain on July 21st. They feared another in the series of these cases. This time the victim was dead and nude from the waist down. Y'all, these photos are just crazy. And honestly, what's crazy is that this is season one and that they showed these photos, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_09 18:14

I know.

SPEAKER_10 18:15

It was wild.

SPEAKER_09 18:17

I know. This is the worst true crime show footage I have ever seen.

SPEAKER_02 18:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 18:23

Ever. I keep waiting for it to stop. Like I thought something was wrong with my computer, with my TV. I I can't even look at it. Like, I'm not using hyperbole and I'm not trying to exaggerate. I'm genuinely trying to convey how horrible it is. I have no idea how this got aired on television. I'm actually shocked YouTube hasn't flagged it.

SPEAKER_10 18:46

Yes. Yeah, I thought the same thing.

SPEAKER_09 18:48

I I've never seen a dead body look like this before.

SPEAKER_10 18:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 18:52

I don't know how it's still up.

SPEAKER_10 18:56

I and not flagged.

SPEAKER_09 18:58

I don't under and not flagged or blurred or what? Like I don't understand how social media hasn't even. I'm so confused. Like I'm like, I'm seeing this, right? Like this.

SPEAKER_10 19:09

But they'll flag like a song that's like tagged to your post from Beyond City.

SPEAKER_09 19:13

What do you mean? I got my audio that has some royalty-free music. I got it completely wiped off of a real estate video. They removed all of my audio. But yet this video is living free on YouTube with a whole dead body on it.

SPEAKER_10 19:33

It's crazy.

SPEAKER_09 19:35

I mean, YouTube, pick your battles. What?

SPEAKER_10 19:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 19:39

I'm just so sad for her and her loved ones. Like, what? This is insane. This is insane. Anyways.

SPEAKER_10 19:45

Criminal investigator Roger Bowen is back and he says she was found lying on the road here. Yeah, we see Roger. We see. Wish we didn't, but we do. But Peter also tells us that the victim has been dead for quite some time. They say her skin was brown and blistered from the sun, but it's not brown. It's like tar color. Like an unnatural deep purple that you know isn't right for her skin, you know.

SPEAKER_09 20:12

Okay. And now I'll help take over here. So they go on telling us and like showing us and zooming in on her legs and feet, narrating how they were covered with blood and how it appeared that the victim was alive before falling into the ditch. So because impressions of her arms flailing uh were found in the dirt, detectives also noticed a blood trail and her bare footprints leading almost a mile up the mountain. At the top of the mountain, detectives found a pair of shoes, some clothing, two sets of footprints, and signs of a struggle. The footprints led detectives to a parking area which where they noticed a tire track. It looked as if a car had turned around before leaving the scene. The victim's bare footprints led from the clearing into the brush. So Roger believes that she somehow gets herself out of this area and then comes back up and then finds her way down the main road.

SPEAKER_10 21:08

But I do want to ask a question. How do you know if like someone was like flailing their like a sign of struggle in dirt? Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_09 21:22

Yeah, probably the dirt. So the blood dries like mud, right? Right. So the blood, the DNA, and the impressions made. So the mud is going to leave the trail. So think of it like we've seen like the blood splatter analysis.

SPEAKER_10 21:38

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 21:39

Same kind of concept.

SPEAKER_10 21:41

Okay, okay. Okay, well, this part is so so so so gross. They show up close photo of her face and mouth and a ton of the hundreds of live worm like creatures that they found on the body. They're maggots, right? Like Yeah, they're maggots. Well, they were carefully collected and preserved, and then taken to the forensics lab for analysis. The autopsy reveals that the victim had probably been choked, but strangulation wasn't the cause of death. We then meet Dr. Jen Isle, who tells us that the cause of death was actually a laceration of the vagina and the blood loss from the laceration. I still don't understand this part.

SPEAKER_09 22:28

What do you mean?

SPEAKER_10 22:29

Like laceration. So what is that? So like That's a cut. Okay.

SPEAKER_09 22:37

What do you mean?

SPEAKER_10 22:39

Like he cut her vagina?

SPEAKER_09 22:41

Yeah. Yeah, she got cut like while she was being attacked and raped.

SPEAKER_10 22:48

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_09 22:50

At the end they talk about how they think he like raped her with his hand.

SPEAKER_10 22:55

I'm gonna see my therapist tomorrow.

SPEAKER_09 23:03

The victim was identified as Sandra Swick, a 43-year-old transient from Florida. Swick's body was found in the same general vicinity as many of the other victims. All were found the same distance from the interstate highway, usually near a V in the road where the attacker would park without being seen by others. So detectives still didn't have a suspect. But three months after Swick's murder, detectives got an unexpected break. While patrolling in the mountains, Sheriff's deputy Larry Daly noticed a car driving out of a deserted side. As he turned on to the side of the road, he saw a woman lying in the dirt, unconscious, but still alive.

SPEAKER_01 23:41

I saw the victim uh laying on the ground, pants down past her knees, her shirt uh pulled up to her neck, as if someone had choked her.

SPEAKER_10 23:51

He immediately called for an ambulance and put out a description of the car he saw driving from the scene. A short time later, this silver Honda was stopped by an officer who heard the call. And it's interesting what a journalist who comes out of nowhere says about what he wanted the murderer to look like.

SPEAKER_05 24:09

What I wanted to see was I wanted to see a monster. I wanted to see this monstrous man, maybe someone with three arms, who came out and was abducting women and strangling them.

SPEAKER_10 24:19

Instead, we find out that the driver was Ronald Porter, an automotive mechanic with a history of sexual offenses. And the photo of him couldn't be any less anticlimatic. Like he looks so normal that maybe that's the scary part. The woman found unconscious in the desert survived her attack and was able to identify Porter as her attacker. Porter confessed to the attack but would not admit to any of the other attacks over the past three years. Investigators believed that Porter was responsible. They also suspected that Porter had murdered Sandra Swick three months earlier. So to find out if all these crimes were the work of one individual, San Diego authorities sought help from the FBI and their unit, which specializes in studying serial murders.

SPEAKER_09 25:05

Ooh, I love me some FBI profiling. Special agent Larry Ankrum enters the chat. Okay, so here is his breakdown of the probabilities favoring it being one offender.

SPEAKER_10 25:18

He chose to abduct the same type of victims.

SPEAKER_09 25:21

He chose to bring them to the same type of location.

SPEAKER_10 25:24

He chose to do the same types of acts with them.

SPEAKER_09 25:26

He invested lots of time and effort into finding these remote locations.

SPEAKER_10 25:31

He's making an assessment before he asks if she needs a ride.

SPEAKER_09 25:35

But once he's decided, yeah, I can control this victim.

SPEAKER_10 25:38

And she gets in the car.

SPEAKER_09 25:40

It becomes a game with him.

SPEAKER_10 25:41

A game to get her to where he wants her to go.

SPEAKER_09 25:44

It should be noted that FBI profiling is not an exact science and it should be viewed as a tool to aid investigations rather than a definitive solution. I just want to throw that disclaimer out there.

SPEAKER_10 25:56

Totally. Okay, so the FBI was convinced that all of these crimes were indeed the work of the same individual. The next step was for San Diego authorities to prove that Ronald Porter committed these crimes. And now they show a closer image of him. And now I'm getting ice cold vibes from those eyes. It's giving me Jeffrey Dahmer. Like it is full on, like just like the all-American guy who just like can do that whole act. Like it's crazy.

SPEAKER_09 26:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 26:24

But let's break down the evidence they have against him.

SPEAKER_09 26:27

The carpet fibers in Porter's car were microscopically similar to the red carpet fiber found in the blouse of Betty Bass.

SPEAKER_10 26:34

Tire tracks found at some of the crime scenes were similar to the print on the spare McMichelin tire found in the trunk of Porter's car.

SPEAKER_09 26:40

And when searching Porter's apartment, police found shoe and boots with tread marks consistent with those found at this at some of the crime scenes.

SPEAKER_10 26:48

Walkie-talkie discovered in Porter's storage shed belonged to a woman who was attacked in the desert mountains a few years earlier.

SPEAKER_09 26:54

And a blouse worn by the same victim contained a semen stain. A DNA analysis of Ronald Porter's blood matched the semen stain from the blouse.

SPEAKER_10 27:03

But despite all of this evidence, prosecutors faced a major legal problem. By the time police arrested Ronald Porter, the statute of limitations on most of these assault cases had run out. If prosecutors were going to send Porter to jail for any length of time, it would have to be for the murder of Sandra Swick.

SPEAKER_09 27:20

This is bullshit. I know, I know. I have an update on this later. Okay, so the worst part of this though is the evidence in the Swick murder case was the weakest. So investigators found no semen, no blood, no hair, or clothing fibers that could link Ronald Porter to the Swick crime scene. Only a tire track found at the SWIC attack site was found, but it was too faint for analysis. However, some of the tennis shoe prints found at the SWIC crime scene were similar to a pair of tennis shoes found in Ronald Porter's apartment. But Porter's attorney says a similar tennis shoe print is inconclusive, which he isn't wrong.

SPEAKER_10 27:58

Mm-hmm. And the prosecution faced another problem. They weren't exactly sure when Sandra Swick was murdered.

SPEAKER_07 28:05

The medical examiner is back, and he really helps us with time of death determination by a pathologist is a very inexact science, if it's a science at all.

SPEAKER_10 28:14

There are certain changes the body undergoes, and they can predict general time frames for those. But there's a lot of different variables that affect it. Cool, that told me a whole lot of nothing. Then I see a whole lot of really disgusting images I will never forget. Okay, so when detectives found Sandra Swick's body on Sheep's Head Mountain, it was badly decomposed, and the hot desert air and sun had taken its toll, and hundreds of those bugs, maggots, were feeding on her decomposing flesh. Detectives collected them and sent them to the laboratory of David Faulkner. He's a forensics entomologist, an expert on insect activity on dead bodies. Okay. Can you imagine in 2025 going on a date, a first date, with someone who's trying to describe themselves and this is their career title? Can we just reenact this for a second?

SPEAKER_09 29:12

Oh my gosh. Okay.

SPEAKER_10 29:14

Let's do it. Let's try it.

SPEAKER_09 29:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_10 29:17

Hi, so nice to meet you. Um, my name's David.

SPEAKER_09 29:20

Oh, thank God. You look just like your photos. I've been catfished before, so it's so refreshing to see someone that actually looks like your pictures. So it says on your profile that you work with bugs.

SPEAKER_10 29:34

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I do.

SPEAKER_09 29:36

That's so nerdy and like cute. I love it. So, like, what does it mean by that? Like, you talk about bugs and the environment and like study them?

SPEAKER_10 29:45

No, no, no, no, no. Um, I'm I'm I'm an entomologist, which specifically works with bugs with um uh dead bodies.

SPEAKER_09 29:55

Oh, oh, oh my gosh, you know what? I am getting a call. Oh, it is my apartment building. You know what? It's burning down. Oh I am so sorry, David. I have to leave.

SPEAKER_10 30:10

Nice to meet you.

SPEAKER_09 30:11

Hi, my god. Okay, all joking aside, his job is super important, and the bugs can tell you a lot about where they've been, where the victim's been, how old the victim is, conditions of the body following death. So Faulkner's first task was to determine the age of the maggots, and so he preserved some in alcohol at the exact stage of development as when they were found. So eventually the maggots uh would shrink and develop a hard shell. This is like way too much to know about maggots that I ever really truly wanted to know in my life, but okay, and so then a week later they emerge as a winged adult.

SPEAKER_10 30:56

Once Faulkner had an adult, he could compare it to the hundreds of different flies which inhabit the California desert where Swick's body was found, which is crazy. When they pulled out that whole thing, I was like, how does one even determine that there's this many flies in the world? I know. That was crazy for me. Anyways, after hours of study and analysis, Faulkner identified them. The flies were sarcophage, I think it's that sarcophag. Sarcophaga.

SPEAKER_09 31:29

Listen, sarcophage.

SPEAKER_10 31:32

Sarcophage.

SPEAKER_09 31:33

We're no one came here to learn about flies.

SPEAKER_10 31:36

The flies were scarcophaga.

SPEAKER_09 31:39

If you came here to learn about flies, that's not find a different podcast. Find a different podcast. I did not claim to be teaching you about flies.

SPEAKER_10 31:48

So the flies were sarcophage, also known as flesh flies. This particular group of flies fly in very bad weather. So if it's foggy or rainy or overcast, they'll be active, which is crazy because I look at my weather forecasts every day. But like it's good to know flies are so on top of their thing. Um, and they'll be they'll they'll be searching for out a potential host. Whereas other flies will probably settle and wait until the sun comes out or until it gets warmer. Once Faulkner knew that they were sarcophage, he could study the exact time frame of their life cycle. The preserved specimens were in their third or final stage of larval development. Then you go backward and say, okay, this was the temperature regimen at this time. This is actually how long this particular insect takes to develop to the stage. Therefore, that body was available to these insects for this amount of time. Usually that indicates how long a person's been dead. In normal weather conditions, it takes a week for the baby in in normal weather conditions, it takes a week for the baby maggots to develop in their third stage, but the weather conditions in the desert are far from normal. I feel like I'm having to talk like so happy about this because I feel like I'm gonna throw up.

SPEAKER_09 33:13

I know, I feel so nauseous. I am so sorry. I really did not want to talk about any of that.

SPEAKER_10 33:20

So thank you for and we keep saying Sandra Swick, and I keep thinking of Sandra Bullock, and that's what's getting me through the episode.

SPEAKER_09 33:28

And Sandra Bullock we trust.

SPEAKER_10 33:30

Yeah, and Sandra Bullock we trust during the week.

SPEAKER_09 33:35

Sandra Swick's body was discovered. The daytime temperatures averaged 92 degrees. In 92 degree weather, it would take only three and a half days for the s for the freshly laid maggots to develop to their third and final stage. And Faulkner was able to tell investigators something else. These flies never deposit. Oh my god, they're maggots in the dark. They only do so in daylight. This meant you guys, this is not why I started a true crime podcast. This is not what I thought I was gonna be talking about. Okay, so this meant that she was still alive when the sun set on Sunday evening, July 17th. But when but she was then dead by daybreak on Monday morning, July 18th. At the first sign of light, these flesh flies were attracted to the chemical scent of her decomposing flesh and immediately laid their maggots. Oh that's so gross. Maggots would not have been as developed if she had been alive longer. So she if she had been alive Monday evening, there's no way that these flies under those temperature conditions could have developed to that stage. So it was thanks to Faulkner's conclusions that police had a scientific time frame for Swick's murder. Okay, did everybody get that? Because I am not repeating it.

SPEAKER_10 35:07

No, I think we got it. I refuse. Porter worked as a mechanic at an automotive chain store. When his timesheets were subpoenaed, of course, he was not at work on July 17th. Porter provided no alibi regarding his whereabouts on that day. He had a time period where he was available to drive from the north part of the county down to pick up Sandra Swick and take her to East County. Peter then tells us, based on the insect clues and the similarities between the Swick murder and the other cases, Ronald Porter was charged in the murder of Sandra Swick.

SPEAKER_09 35:39

Prosecutors believe Ronald Porter picked up Swick as she hitchhiked somewhere near an entrance ramp to the interstate.

SPEAKER_10 35:46

As the car traveled east into the mountains, Porter pulled off the main highway and onto a dark, deserted road.

SPEAKER_09 35:52

He may have used some excuse, as he did in other cases, possibly the need to take a bathroom break.

SPEAKER_10 35:58

As he walked around the back of the car, he surprised Swick from behind.

SPEAKER_09 36:02

Grabbing her around the neck in a military-type chokehold.

SPEAKER_10 36:05

He pulled her from the car and choked her until she was unconscious.

SPEAKER_09 36:08

He threw her to the ground, removed her clothes, and sexually assaulted her with his hand.

SPEAKER_10 36:13

He then returned to his car and fled.

SPEAKER_09 36:15

Sometime later, Swick regained consciousness.

SPEAKER_10 36:18

Dizzy, disoriented, and bleeding heavily from the attack.

SPEAKER_09 36:21

Swick walked barefoot down the dark, deserted road, walking almost a mile before collapsing.

SPEAKER_10 36:27

The blood trail was almost one mile long, and she bled to death from lacerations suffered during the assault.

SPEAKER_04 36:33

Very difficult, long, dying process that she went through.

SPEAKER_10 36:37

Ronald Porter was convicted of a second-degree murder and the death of Sandra Swick and was sentenced to years to life in prison. Ronald Porter continues to maintain his innocence.

SPEAKER_09 36:47

And then David Faulkner. He comes back to tell us even more about his BFF bugs.

SPEAKER_00 36:54

You get a lot of information from them. Whether a body's been moved, uh, how long the person's been dead, or how long the body has been available to insects, uh, whether the body's been buried, whether the person took drugs, whether they had been poisoned, all these different sorts of things uh uh could be um uh in the insects that are collected or removed from the body.

SPEAKER_10 37:15

This man goes on and on and on about better to be passionate about your career choice than not.

SPEAKER_09 37:24

Listen, I yeah, I mean you're not I do. I do.

SPEAKER_10 37:30

Are there any updates with this one?

SPEAKER_09 37:32

Honestly, no, not really, which is surprising.

SPEAKER_10 37:35

I can usually find something, but um well, it's better to not have any updates about fucking bugs.

SPEAKER_09 37:40

But I am shocked that he was convicted in 1992 on what they did have against him, because what I do want to update you on is this. As of January 1st, 2017, California law eliminated the statute of limitations for prosecuting certain serious sex crimes, including rape involving force or violence, child sexual abuse, aggravated sexual assault of a child, sexual acts during kidnapping, lewd, and kidnapping, mind you, is not just involving children. Kidnapping is and anyone um can be kidnapped, um, taken somewhere or held against your will. Um lewd acts on a child un under 14 with force. So all of the evidence in all of those other uh sexual assaults, rape cases would have put him in jail today. I cannot believe that that was even an issue to begin with. That's horrific for all those other cases and all those other victims. Um, but yeah, there is so little on this guy. It's actually weird, you know, for all the cases and all the horrific things he did. Yeah, I mean, turns out he was married, he had kids, but like there's even little info on them, which is good on that part. Like, I'm I'm glad they they seem to have been able to be protected and their pieces protected, and they seem to have been unaware of what he was doing. Um, and maybe it is like of the times because it was the 80s, you know, but from what I could read, they were able to show a pattern of his behavior. So some of this was able to be brought into court to show a pattern of his behavior, so it's like it was used against him sort of to put him away for life. Got it, you know, so it's like it was but wasn't used against him.

SPEAKER_10 39:30

I'm just like so intrigued to know that like if there have been any other cases that have been tried in court with Bucks.

SPEAKER_09 39:39

There are, um, and there's another Forensic Files episode.

SPEAKER_10 39:45

Oh god.

SPEAKER_09 39:46

I watched it because I I thought it was like related to this, it's not, and it's not quite as graphic as this thing got.

SPEAKER_10 39:54

Okay, because I can do it.

SPEAKER_09 39:56

It will come like a long, it'll come way, way down the road.

SPEAKER_10 39:59

Okay, because I cannot do another maggots episode.

SPEAKER_09 40:02

There is another, it's called like true bugs or something, but I don't want to know anything about bugs. I know, I know. Bugs are so gross.

SPEAKER_10 40:14

Okay, okay I hate maggots.

SPEAKER_09 40:17

Oh my gosh, they're the worst. They're so disgusting, they're so gross. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 40:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_09 40:22

So now instead of a missing person case, uh, we wanted to bring attention to a case that we have been following and we need to keep in the media. We actually discussed it before, and that is the case of Emily Pike.

SPEAKER_10 40:34

As of August 2025, the investigate the investigation into the tragic death of 14-year-old Emily Pike, a member of the San Carlos Apache tribe, remains ongoing with no arrests made. We shared Emily's case in the spring. She was reported missing from her group home in Mesa, Arizona on January 27, 2025. Her dismembered remains were discovered on February 14th, 2025, along U.S. Highway 16 near Globe, Arizona. Pinel County medical examiner ruled her cause of death as homicidal violence with blunt head trauma. Investigators have not publicly identified any suspects. However, Emily's mother, Steph Decello, reported that authorities are questioning three individuals in connection with the case. The Gilla County Sheriff's Office, Mesa Police Department, Bureau of Indian of Indian Affairs, and the San Carlos Apache Tribe Police are collaborating on the investigation. In response to Emily's death, Arizona Governor Katie Hobbs signed Emily's law in May 2025 establishing a turquoise alert system to quickly disseminate information when Native Americans go missing under suspicious or dangerous circumstances. And North Dakota Governor Kelly Armstrong approved a feather alert. The alerts take their names from items that hold spiritual and cultural significance to Native Americans. As of August 2025, the investigation into the tragic death of 14-year-old Emily Pike, a member of the San Carlos Apache tribe, remains ongoing, with no arrests made this case in the spring. She was reported missing from her group home in Mesa, Arizona on January 27, 2025. Her dismembered remains were discovered on February 14, 2025 along U.S. Highway 60 near Globe. The Pinell County Medical Examiner ruled her cause of death as a homicidal violence with blunthead trauma. Investigators have not publicly identified any suspects. However, Emily's mother, Steph Ducella, reported that authorities are questioning three individuals in connection with the case. The Hill County Sheriff's Office, Mesa Mesa Police Department, Bureau of Uh My God, so many words, Bureau of Indian Affairs, and the San Carlos Apache Tribe Police are all collaborating on the investigation. In response to Emily's death, Arizona Governor Katie Hobbs signed Emily's law in May 2025 establishing a turquoise alert system to quickly disseminate information when Native Americans go missing under suspicious or dangerous circumstances. And North Dakota Governor Pelly Armstrong approved a feather alert. The alerts take their names from items that hold spiritual and cultural significance to Native Americans. The Gila County Sheriff's Office has increased the reward for information leading to an arrest to $200,000. Additionally, the FBI and San Carlos Apache tribe are each offering $75,000, bringing the total reward to $350,000. If you have information about Emily Pike's case, please contact Silent Witness at 4801 480 WITNESS or the Gila County Sheriff's Office. Emily's case reveals significant flaws in how missing indigenous persons are treated, both by the authorities and by the systems that should be protecting them. It underscores the need for reform in how missing persons cases involving Native Americans are handled and has sparked calls for greater accountability. Better oversight of institutions that care for indigenous youth, and more robust systems of support for families of missing individuals.

SPEAKER_09 44:07

So for anyone wondering why an amber alert wasn't triggered for this baby, like I immediately wondered, I want to share what I found and I'm curious what others think because it definitely sparked a lot of debate for good reason. So, Drew, can you read this next part for me?

SPEAKER_10 44:20

Yes. According to the criteria for issuing an amber alert, certain conditions must be met, such as the child must be under 18 years old, there must be evidence or a reasonable belief that the child was abducted, the child must be at imminent risk of harm or death. There must be enough descriptive information available about the child, the suspect, or the vehicle. And in Emily's case, even though she was a 14-year-old girl and she was ultimately found in a dismembered state, the initial handling of the case did not seem to meet the Amber Alert criteria due to the assumption that she had voluntarily left the group home.

SPEAKER_09 44:57

Now, this is where I think the valid points of debate come in. She is 14. A 14-year-old does not have the skills to just wing it out in the world. She's also living in a group home. So she doesn't have a community of aunts, uncles, family, neighbors, etc., that she knows that could take her in or that she could turn to or knock on their door that she can trust. You know, everyone she encounters will be a stranger, strangers that have no connection to her. And on top of that, she is Native American. So she may face discrimination. All of that makes her even more vulnerable, if that's even at all possible. She is the most vulnerable of all runaways. Do you know what I mean? So, like whether she chose to leave by her own volition or not, any adult in the room should be able to make that judgment call that the world is not going to be a safe place for her. It's not safe for her to be out there and she needs to be protected. So the fact that people who swear to serve and protect do not feel compelled to do so and use all the tools at their disposal to protect a child out there, a little girl who is alone in the world. This is where I struggle to understand why people choose that kind of profession in the first place.

SPEAKER_10 46:20

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 46:21

And that's where I'm just like, children are so precious. People are so sick to hurt kids and to see a child less than because of race or ethnicity. There is something so, so wrong with you, truly. Like, get help. Get help. Something is so deeply, deeply broken inside of you. If you project that onto a child, like stay so, so far away from them, please. Now, something else that I found while looking up uh a case to talk about today is the missing and murdered indigenous women and people task force released a toolkit for families and friends to use if someone they know is missing. And this is from the Washington State Attorney General's office. On May 12th, 2025, the Attorney General's office stated families and friends of missing people are often the best advocates to help find their loved one. The Task Force Families Subcommittee, chaired by Carolyn DeFord, Pielup, and Maureen Rosette Chippewa Cree spent more than three years meeting with listening to families of missing and murdered people. And they developed the toolkit from listening sessions to give families and friends awareness, prevention, and intervention strategies. The toolkit also provides organizational tools for relatives and friends to have during the difficult and chaotic time when someone is missing. Now, I know this toolkit is specific to Washington State, but if I've learned anything over the years of just like absorbing this content, like podcasts and books from law enforcement and uh people that work in the legal system and whatnot, they all say document, document, document, like take stuff that law enforcement officials and legal representatives use and put together. Use this stuff. So any toolkit that any state has put together, that's like that word again, precedence, right? Yeah, take this and use it. It can only help you get assistance from law enforcement when you are looking for a loved one. So they're setting the bar. This is incredible. So I mean, I hate that we live in a world where we need things like that.

SPEAKER_10 48:23

We have to do this, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 48:24

It shouldn't be this way.

SPEAKER_10 48:26

The toolkit is available in the episode notes, and we will also post a link to it as well as case information in our Instagram bio at Forensic Files Podcast and in the Facebook group, the Forensic Files Duo discussion group. Thank you.

SPEAKER_09 48:39

Thank you so much. I hope all these resources help someone someday. Okay, so we are going to hold back on sharing our next episode because we may or we may not be uh going forward with our regular programming. It all depends on our schedules.

SPEAKER_10 48:55

If you like our podcast, please help us grab the word share on social media, share on Reddit, share everywhere, and drop a review to tell us what you think.

SPEAKER_09 49:02

Until the next one. Bye.